Curse

pingu666 · Feb 06, 2007, 01:01 AM // 01:01

*glyph* of restoration is quiet nice from my brief playings, i think its kinda slipped under the radar. aura is great as a cover enchant and to soak up small bits of damage. but its horrid when someone decides your face needs re arranging.

ele attunment is really nice. i think its the best elite for air cos it turns u into a machine gun

searing flames can be capped early on in NF, just get to the mainland, and run upto gate of desolation.

yohlon haven > nundu bay > dajkah inlet > venta cemetery > gates of desolation

the dude with searing flames will probably own you rather hard (he did). i just switched to E/A green farm setup and got him on the 2nd attempt

id be surprised if you cant get a mate to run u about, i do it if i can get several friends who need the area

Sirix Leai · Feb 06, 2007, 01:22 AM // 01:22

LightningHell...I said "if I even take it along" in referal to aura of rest, cuz yes I do recognize its not the greatest heal and you arent casting when kiting, but Im also not kiting minor damage and aura keeps up with that. One less thing for the monk to worry about if everything goes sideways. And my suggestion of armor wasnt conditional, prismatic is global +5 armor for air/eart/fire/water at 9 or above. With a defensive staff my ele has 70AL or more not 60AL.

And do you even ackowledge that some one who doesnt share your opinion on something might be correct? I havent gone and hunted down every single one of your posts, but the ones I have seen all you do is trash other peoples suggestions and ideas...not contructive criticism, trash and basicly call them noobs by inference.

Alex Morningstar · Feb 06, 2007, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

If I were playing with 1 hench monk, I would maybe agree with you, if I weren't bringing Prodigy along. (Healing Breeze still is better.) But with two hench monks who can heal, your hero monks, or human monks, if you're kiting, those people can patch up your lost health faster than aura.

Meaning, if you're kiting, you can't cast spells, but your healers can. Basically, anyway.

Except in a 8 man group, chances are your monks already have 6 (or 7, depending on how much of an asshat the other monk is) other people thinking the same thing when it comes to taking damage. As someone who monks about a third of my ingame time, 'tanking' eles aren't very high on my list of priority heals.

LightningHell · Feb 06, 2007, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirix Leai

LightningHell...I said "if I even take it along" in referal to aura of rest, cuz yes I do recognize its not the greatest heal and you arent casting when kiting, but Im also not kiting minor damage and aura keeps up with that. One less thing for the monk to worry about if everything goes sideways. And my suggestion of armor wasnt conditional, prismatic is global +5 armor for air/eart/fire/water at 9 or above. With a defensive staff my ele has 70AL or more not 60AL.

And do you even ackowledge that some one who doesnt share your opinion on something might be correct? I havent gone and hunted down every single one of your posts, but the ones I have seen all you do is trash other peoples suggestions and ideas...not contructive criticism, trash and basicly call them noobs by inference.

I know you weren't referring to conditional armor, just take in mind the OP was thinking about conditional armor, not Prismatic.

Minor damage, if not kited, will accumulate to major damage. Every bit of health lost is equivalent to less overall effort that needs to be made in a next time when you get killed. Although Aura does function * okay * in that aspect, Healing Breeze serves that function fine as well, perhaps even better, and can be used to regenerate health while kiting as well.

I do acknowledge that somebody who doesn't share my opinion might be correct. For example, I hate Searing Flames and I don't like it. Nevertheless, I acknowledge that it is powerful. Most builds I "trash", as you say, are because I can reason them to be wrong, and bad. Something works doesn't mean something works well; I try to lead people to more efficient routes or methods of playing. While your opinions are well and your own, and I don't doubt dragging Earth Prayers through the game is okay if not over-optimal, Healing Prayers remains a viable line (due to some good skills in an otherwise crap attribute).

Remember that when people ask for advice, they generally don't want original advice. They want cookie cutter, since cookie cutter is generally the best builds around that can be used by the majority of the populace. Giving the advisee complicated, or sometimes just plain wrong advice will drag him down the road further. Even if the original build is usable, new players don't know the meaning between "for kicks" and "for real", usually, since they haven't experienced the profession/game enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Morningstar

Except in a 8 man group, chances are your monks already have 6 (or 7, depending on how much of an asshat the other monk is) other people thinking the same thing when it comes to taking damage. As someone who monks about a third of my ingame time, 'tanking' eles aren't very high on my list of priority heals.

I guess we agree, then?

The tanking ele thing is exactly why I don't like Aura of Restoration. You can't use it while taking damage, and when you don't use it while taking damage, it's inefficient to the point that I don't get why would you would use it.

Alex Morningstar · Feb 06, 2007, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

The tanking ele thing is exactly why I don't like Aura of Restoration. You can't use it while taking damage, and when you don't use it while taking damage, it's inefficient to the point that I don't get why would you would use it.

You can use it after you take damage though. Just because you stop taking damage or are not being targeted does not mean the battle is over.

Plus, it's a cheap cover.

LightningHell · Feb 06, 2007, 04:46 AM // 04:46

I'll accept the point it's a cheap cover. Not exactly cheap, but a cover nonetheless.

However, after you're taking damage, either you're at such a state that you are in no danger of dying and innate health regen will cover up if you really want a full health bar, or your monks are crap.

Alex Morningstar · Feb 06, 2007, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Or your monks are busy. If you're in danger of dying, then your kiting sucks.

Jeff Highwind · Feb 06, 2007, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Well this thread has turn into a Lightning vs Alex bashfest.

Things have changed over an 8hr period. Got my elites and Stoneflesh so unless I am in a enchant-killer heavy area I can say goodbye to Aura of Resto. Thanks to Mango's kindness I now have max armor from Kamadan as well.

Just to save this thread from these two further butting heads, I'll ask how my idea for a support pressure Water Build would work in both PvE and AB (Note in AB the res gets dropped, but that's thinking WAY ahead of schedule):

Attributes are plotted to be spent in a 12:9:9 ratio between Water:Earth:EStorage

This build is meant to stop Melee in it's tracks. Vapor Blade's spike potential deems it somewhat worthy to use since I rarely see Wamos with enchants outside of combat. Basically it works somewhat like Air spike except the elite allows for a snare that lets your teammates finish the job.

[skill]Glyph of Elemental Power[/skill][skill]Water Attunement[/skill][skill]Vapor Blade[/skill][skill]Mind Freeze[/skill][skill]Icy Prism[/skill][skill]Stoneflesh Aura[/skill][skill]Ward against Melee[/skill][skill]Resurrect[/skill]

Dr Strangelove · Feb 06, 2007, 06:11 AM // 06:11

hmmm, seems like you're a bit confused on your goal. Are you trying to snare things to have your melee tear it up? Drop some group defense? Spike? All of those require pretty different bars. Stoneflesh is also kinda crappy unless you spec *very* heavily into earth, as the duration will suck too much to be worthwhile.

To snare things for your melee while playing group defense, I'd run something like:

[skill]mind freeze[/skill][skill]deep freeze[/skill][skill]freezing gust[/skill][skill]blurred vision[/skill][skill]water attunement[/skill][skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]glyph of sacrifice[/skill][skill]resurrection chant[/skill]

potentially swapping out something for frozen burst if you're feeling like charging in.

If you want to spike more, I'd run:

[skill]shatterstone[/skill][skill]vapor blade[/skill][skill]icy prism[/skill][skill]water attunement[/skill][skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]glyph of restoration[/skill][skill]frigid armor[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

swapping out glyph of restoration for an enchantment stripping skill if you know you'll have a healer backing you up.

For AB I'd throw in maelstrom and armor of mist to each build, swapping out frigid armor in the second build.

As one final note, if you really like the idea of playing water snare guy in PvP, water trident just got a nice buff and can be tons of fun. It's a bit of a harder cap than the other skills, so it's up to you whether it's worth it or not.

Best of luck!

Jeff Highwind · Feb 06, 2007, 06:17 AM // 06:17

I'm just working with what I got atm, but I can see your skepticism. Shatterstone is a big goal in my book but considering I have yet to get to lvl20 it may take a good while. I'll be sure to test these out after hitting 20.

And OMG at Glyph of Sac+Res Chant. Must buy both.

LightningHell · Feb 06, 2007, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Morningstar

Or your monks are busy. If you're in danger of dying, then your kiting sucks.

Well, you can't kite a warrior indefinitely as a normal ele and not stand a chance of dying. Only enough so that your physicals can punish them hard, and/or buy enough time so your monk can heal you.

It's not really a me vs Alex bashfest, since we have different points that we (I think) agree and disagree on. I think that's one of the main reasons why the Campfire was introduced; to encourage discussion.

On Dr Strangelove's builds, the second one looks okay. I'd switch Frozen Burst for Icy Prism, though.

Personally prefer not running any Elemental armor buffs.

I'll just list a cookie-cutter water with wards,, since that's what you seem to be playing at the moment.

[skill]Ether Prodigy[/skill][skill]Heal Party[/skill][skill]Draw Conditions[/skill][skill]Deep Freeze[/skill][skill]Ward against Foes[/skill][skill]Ward against Melee[/skill][skill]Glyph of Sacrifice[/skill][skill]Resurrection Chant[/skill]

What I think about Shatterstone (I don't really like Shatterstone, but eh...):

[skill]Shatterstone[/skill][skill]Water Attunement[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Deep Freeze[/skill][skill]Draw Conditions[/skill][skill]Vapor Blade[/skill][skill]Glyph of Sacrifice[/skill][skill]Resurrection Chant[/skill]

Hell, if you want to run Mind Freeze:

[skill]Mind Freeze[/skill][skill]Water Attunement[/skill][skill]Draw Conditions[/skill][skill]Freezing Gust[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Heal Party[/skill][skill]Glyph of Sacrifice[/skill][skill]Resurrection Chant[/skill]

I only really like the first one though. Feel free to make suggestions, the last two are more theoretical (meaning I haven't played it). I'll try them out when I get back home.

Please don't use Glyph of Restoration, btw.

Cebe · Feb 06, 2007, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Highwind

I plan to get Max armor at Kaineng actually. Droks runs nowadays range anywhere from 5-10k and that is somthing I can't afford on my budget. Kaineng (albeit having uglier armor imo) is much cheaper to access and I will be capping Ele Attunement/Mind Freeze there anyway.

If you prefer armor later on in the game and don't have much money you could always get Canthan collector's armor. The only character I started in Tyria is a warrior very recently. I'll never again start a character in Tyria again...it's SO depressing! Anyhow, I got Canthan collector's armor on my warrior so I could save the money and get Kurzick later on. If you can bare the torment of having to wear collector's armor it's worth it in the end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

I'll just list a cookie-cutter water with wards,, since that's what you seem to be playing at the moment.

[skill]Ether Prodigy[/skill][skill]Heal Party[/skill][skill]Draw Conditions[/skill][skill]Frozen Burst[/skill][skill]Ward against Foes[/skill][skill]Ward against Melee[/skill][skill]Glyph of Sacrifice[/skill][skill]Resurrection Chant[/skill]

Will you please stop that? Don't encourage him - you're corrupting his mind! And what's more, wtf? you have FIVE attributes there! Energy Storage, Earth Magic, Water Magic, Healing Prayers, Protection Prayers. Granted, Draw Conditions may not need many attributes. As for the Heal Party. Just don't get me started...I've already shared my feelings on that E/Mo stereotype. Personally I play Ele to play Ele. If I wanted to heal I'd play Monk. Also, Glyph of Sacrifice? What a waste of a skill slot in PvE (when paired with Ressurection Chant, anyway)...There are much better skills you could use instead of that. [SARCASM]Basically a monk could do that much better...if it were me I'd make a monk with Glyph of Lesser Energy, Glyph of Sacrifice, Ressurection Chant, Unyielding Aura, Heal Party and I'd call myself "Captain Resbot"[/SARCASM].

As for Jeff's build. I'd use Deep Freeze instead of Icy Prism since it snares foes in an area. If you're loving Wards you could look into Ward Against Harm when you do get far enough through Prophecies

It may be an elite so it means you can't use Mind Freeze but personally I try to use elites other than Mind Freeze/Burn/Shock because the temptation to spam them is just too great! If you're wanting Shatterstone as soon as possible remember it is available in the Arborstone mission (providing you take the correct path through the Cathedral).

Nice to see another Water Ele...makes a change to all the boring Fire eles.

Diversity ftw.

Ensign · Feb 06, 2007, 10:43 AM // 10:43

I think that Frozen Burst makes Ward Against Foes pretty obsolete, you probably want a Deep Freeze in for that.

I still think Mind Freeze is trash, I don't see any reason to run it especially with Shatterstone sitting there.

Peace,
-CxE

LightningHell · Feb 06, 2007, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Whoops. Deep Freeze in.

And Celestial Beaver, it's a cookie cutter for a reason. Heal Party is a good skill that's overcosted for a monk, which is why an Ele is using it.

I still don't like Mind Freeze, either. But he was using it, so I just provided one for his usage.

Dr Strangelove · Feb 06, 2007, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Well, unfortunately HP is kind crappy in AB and unneccesary in most PvE. Same goes for being a drawbot, it's mandatory in GvG, but not quite as hot in areas where no one spams blind and cripple all over your melee.

As far as icy prism in my shatterstone build, it's a poor man's afterspike. The purpose of the build isn't to snare at all, but to spike out single targets. I'll admit that I have trouble with those last couple slots, (Usually ending up with glyph of elemental power and restful breeze), but hey, it's a low end PvP/PvE build, and startlingly entertaining and effective for what it is.

Ensign · Feb 06, 2007, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Well, unfortunately HP is kind crappy in AB and unneccesary in most PvE.

No skill is neccessary in PvE. However if I were to make a short list of skills that I would *want* to have in PvE, Heal Party would definitely be near the top of said list.

Peace,
-CxE

Cebe · Feb 08, 2007, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

And Celestial Beaver, it's a cookie cutter for a reason. Heal Party is a good skill that's overcosted for a monk, which is why an Ele is using it.

Please explain to me how having a build using 5 attributes is "cookie cutter". I always throught cookie cutter are generally good builds anyone can use...particularly people who are new to the game. Teaching people that using 5 attributes is a good idea so early on, to me, is not the best idea. I could be wrong of course...

bungusmaximus · Feb 08, 2007, 11:08 AM // 11:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Please explain to me how having a build using 5 attributes is "cookie cutter". I always throught cookie cutter are generally good builds anyone can use...particularly people who are new to the game. Teaching people that using 5 attributes is a good idea so early on, to me, is not the best idea. I could be wrong of course...

I think it's quite easy to see what the both of you are good at. lightninghell likes pvp? and you pve? does it show? I would love to give it a go in any PvP arena with lightninghell, but i'm not sure if I would like to have him in my PvE team. Opposite goes for celestial beaver.

Cebe · Feb 08, 2007, 11:28 AM // 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

I think it's quite easy to see what the both of you are good at. lightninghell likes pvp? and you pve? does it show? I would love to give it a go in any PvP arena with lightninghell, but i'm not sure if I would like to have him in my PvE team. Opposite goes for celestial beaver.

Point taken.

dgb · Feb 08, 2007, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

I think it's quite easy to see what the both of you are good at. lightninghell likes pvp? and you pve? does it show? I would love to give it a go in any PvP arena with lightninghell, but i'm not sure if I would like to have him in my PvE team. Opposite goes for celestial beaver.

Are you kidding? Ensign was one of the first people to get to the end of Nightfall AFAIK and is extremely good at min-maxing PVE to blaze through it.

If I wanted to roleplay, play in character and generally play sub-standard builds but have fun because I'm being a water mage or something then CB wins. If I want to beat the crap out of PVE Ensign wins.